Hebrew 101 log from July 6, 1997

Session Start: Sun Jul 06 20:33:22 1997
*** Now talking in #IsraeliCafe
*** Retrieving #IsraeliCafe channel info...
*** AlyzaCCC changes topic to "Hebrew 101: Lesson 3 begins"
*** datafox has joined #IsraeliCafe
AlyzaCCC: Shalom Datafox
datafox: hi alyza!
datafox: finally i can participate here...
AlyzaCCC: got a Hebrew font?
datafox: sure
AlyzaCCC: BTW, are you one of the people who has been getting my Hebrew 101 mailings?
datafox: yes!
datafox: Im Susanne
AlyzaCCC: ah, cool!
datafox: from the BN list!!!
AlyzaCCC: Nice to see you!
datafox: now im on vacation and can stay up all night ;-)
AlyzaCCC: yes, I remember you, just not with the datafox nick name
AlyzaCCC: have you been following along with the logs?
datafox: yes i have
datafox: i think i got it :)
AlyzaCCC: any questions of problems?
AlyzaCCC: cool!
datafox: not yet :)
datafox: im really happy to be here finally
datafox: its 3 in the morning!
AlyzaCCC: well, some of the people on the class are out of town this week
AlyzaCCC: wow!
datafox: hehe
AlyzaCCC: BTW, Susan, the Israelicafe is open for informal chat at 12 noon EST on Friday
AlyzaCCC: we normally start at 8:30 on Sundays
datafox: whats the time there?
AlyzaCCC: the Hebrew is in your 1-1's
AlyzaCCC: here it is 8:43 EST
datafox: oh isee!
AlyzaCCC: does that make things a bit easier?
datafox: the words!
datafox: wow!
datafox: cool
AlyzaCCC: yes, the words, all 17 of them :-)
AlyzaCCC: ==========================
AlyzaCCC: Letters of the Aleph-Bet for this lesson
AlyzaCCC: ==========================
AlyzaCCC: ב
AlyzaCCC: Bet, it is pronounced like the b in bat. The bet, when found
AlyzaCCC: in children's books, siddurs, and Hebrew Tanach's that
AlyzaCCC: are in book form, has a dagesh, a dot, in the middle
AlyzaCCC: of the letter. Unfortunately, I cannot reproduce this
AlyzaCCC: on IRC. Please make sure you see this letter on the
AlyzaCCC: the web site, lesson 3. For now, keep in mind that
AlyzaCCC: the bet has a dot in the middle.
AlyzaCCC: =====
AlyzaCCC: כ
AlyzaCCC: kaf, it is pronounced like the k in kilt. The kaf, like the bet,
AlyzaCCC: has a dagesh or dot in the middle of the letter. The effect
AlyzaCCC: of the dot in either letter is to make it a harder sound, in
AlyzaCCC: this case, a K sound. Again, please see the web site to
AlyzaCCC: see how this looks with the dagesh.
AlyzaCCC: ן
AlyzaCCC: Nun sofit. Like the mem sofit we learned earlier,
AlyzaCCC: this is a final form, found only at the end of a word.
AlyzaCCC: It is pronounced just like the nun נ we learned about
AlyzaCCC: in a previous lesson. That is, like the n in night.
AlyzaCCC: It might help you to piture the nun as being unfolded
AlyzaCCC: at the bottom to produce the nun sofit.
AlyzaCCC: ====
AlyzaCCC: The Nun sofit looks a bit like a vav, but the vav is shorter
AlyzaCCC: ן
AlyzaCCC: Nun sofit. Like the mem sofit we learned earlier,
AlyzaCCC: this is a final form, found only at the end of a word.
AlyzaCCC: It is pronounced just like the nun נ we learned about
AlyzaCCC: in a previous lesson. That is, like the n in night.
AlyzaCCC: It might help you to piture the nun as being unfolded
AlyzaCCC: at the bottom to produce the nun sofit.
AlyzaCCC: by shorter, I mean that the nun sofit extends below the line one is writing on, while the vav ends on the line
AlyzaCCC: ח
AlyzaCCC: chet or khet (ch as in loch) is pronounced like
AlyzaCCC: the ch in loch. A .wav file of its pronounciation
AlyzaCCC: can be found on the web site.
datafox: im the only one now?
AlyzaCCC: yep, but that is okay, we will go over the letters and vowels anyhow
datafox: okay
AlyzaCCC: some are out of town, and some have sunday scheduling problems
AlyzaCCC: they are used to getting Sunday's stuff via logs
*** Greg3 has joined #IsraeliCafe
datafox: oh i see
* datafox says "Hi!!!" to Greg3
Greg3: Shalom
AlyzaCCC: Shalom Greg
datafox: shalom
* datafox says "! םולש (Shalom!) " to all people on #IsraeliCafe
AlyzaCCC: Greg, for you I will recap what we have done so far
Greg3: Can you just send me the word list, Please?
AlyzaCCC: meet Susan, one of the students who has been following the class via logs only
datafox: okay... im trying to get a friend here...
AlyzaCCC: sure Greg, just a moment
Greg3: Shalom Aleichem, Susan!
AlyzaCCC: ו
AlyzaCCC: Vav. The vav is pronounced like the v
AlyzaCCC: in van. Notice that the vowel holam
AlyzaCCC: we learned last lesson (represented
AlyzaCCC: by an i) is really a vav with a dot above it
AlyzaCCC: the affect of the dot is to turn this letter into
AlyzaCCC: a vowel.
AlyzaCCC: ======
AlyzaCCC: okay, lets do a bit of practice
AlyzaCCC: what is the letter, and what sound does it make?
AlyzaCCC: ן
datafox: nun sofit
AlyzaCCC: good, and the sound?
datafox: n
AlyzaCCC: and where in a word is the nun sofit found?
Greg3: last letter
datafox: at the end
AlyzaCCC: tov
AlyzaCCC: ב
Greg3: bet
AlyzaCCC: with dagesh in the letter
datafox: bet, b
Greg3: "B"
AlyzaCCC: right,
AlyzaCCC: ח
datafox: khet
Greg3: Chet, "ch" sorta
datafox: like scottish or german
datafox: :)
Greg3: spit when ya say it
AlyzaCCC: can you see the difference between the khet and the hey?
Greg3: Hey has a hole to let the air out ;-)
datafox: yes... sure
AlyzaCCC: ה ח
AlyzaCCC: what is it, and which one is the chet here?
Greg3: the right one is the Chet
AlyzaCCC: very good way to remember it, Greg :-)
AlyzaCCC: correct
AlyzaCCC: כ
AlyzaCCC: with dagesh in the middle
datafox: i see it in both directions :-)
Greg3: kaf, "K" ish sound
datafox: kaf
datafox: also a kh sound
AlyzaCCC: what do you mean, Susan?
datafox: i got a swapping function here
AlyzaCCC: Susan, not kh when it has a dagesh in the middle
AlyzaCCC: ah
AlyzaCCC: can you disable it?
datafox: oh yes, i see
datafox: sure
datafox: did it
AlyzaCCC: thanks :-)
AlyzaCCC: ו
Greg3: vav - "V" sound
AlyzaCCC: right
datafox: v
datafox: vav
AlyzaCCC: very good!
AlyzaCCC: ==================
AlyzaCCC: Vowel sounds for lesson 3
AlyzaCCC: ==================
AlyzaCCC: : This is the shva. We have seen this one
AlyzaCCC: before, but I want to remind you that at the
AlyzaCCC: beginning of a syllable it is pronounced like
AlyzaCCC: a short, brief ih sound.
AlyzaCCC: how do you pronounce it at the end of a syllable?
Greg3: just the saying sound of the letter
datafox: no vowel at the end of a syllable
AlyzaCCC: right, the vowel is silent when at the end of a syllable, it acts as a stop of sorts
AlyzaCCC: ====
AlyzaCCC: .. Tsereh. Two dots in a row, below one letter,
AlyzaCCC: it is pronounced like the eh in get, very much like
AlyzaCCC: the segol (V) we learned earlier. We will see
AlyzaCCC: later that there is a difference under some condtions
AlyzaCCC: but for most cases, it is eh.
AlyzaCCC: this is using the Israeli pronounciation of course
AlyzaCCC: =====
*** Dawn has joined #IsraeliCafe
Greg3: sephardic
AlyzaCCC: Shalom Dawn!
Greg3: Shaoom aleichem, Dawn
Dawn: Pardon my lateness...
Greg3: oops, Shalom
datafox: shalom dawn
AlyzaCCC: .l shuruk. It is a vav with a dot to the middle left
AlyzaCCC: I cannot make that here on IRC, so I am using a
AlyzaCCC: lower case 'L' with a period to the left. Please see
AlyzaCCC: the web page to see how it really looks. It is pronounced
AlyzaCCC: like the oo in boot.
AlyzaCCC: =====
AlyzaCCC: okay, let's practice using some of the vowels and letters we have just learned
AlyzaCCC: .lב
Greg3: Boo
datafox: boo
AlyzaCCC: or ו
AlyzaCCC: ב
AlyzaCCC: oops, let me try that again
datafox: וב
AlyzaCCC: ו
AlyzaCCC: thanks, that is what I was going for, Susan
datafox: :)
AlyzaCCC: yes, it is boo
* Dawn is scared now:)
AlyzaCCC: lol
Greg3: LOL Dawn
AlyzaCCC: כ
AlyzaCCC: ..
Dawn: koo
datafox: cheh
AlyzaCCC: try the first part of Dawn's answer and the last part of datafox's and you have the answer
AlyzaCCC: Dawn has the consonant right, datafox has the vowel sound right
AlyzaCCC: .. is eh
AlyzaCCC: כ is k sound
Dawn: keh?
AlyzaCCC: yes!
datafox: depends on the dagesh, doesnt it, alyza?
AlyzaCCC: (note: we have only learned the letter with the dagesh)
* datafox says sorry
AlyzaCCC: no reason to be sorry, it is a good question
AlyzaCCC: ..
datafox: ken!
AlyzaCCC: you bet!
Dawn: Barbie!
Dawn: oh...wrong
AlyzaCCC: that word, by the way, means yes
datafox: barbie! lol
AlyzaCCC: ..
Greg3: Ben
AlyzaCCC: right Greg
AlyzaCCC: I bet you know what that means
Greg3: son of
Dawn: son!
Dawn: of
datafox: son
AlyzaCCC: right, son, the of is implied in certain situations
AlyzaCCC: ו
AlyzaCCC: ה
AlyzaCCC: just a moment
AlyzaCCC: .וה
AlyzaCCC: remember, the dot is really in, the middle, as on the web page (lesson 3 web page)
Greg3: koo
datafox: hu
AlyzaCCC: look closely, Greg
Dawn: hoo?
datafox: hoo rather
Greg3: oops
AlyzaCCC: right datafox, and Dawn
Greg3: bad eyes
Greg3: HOO
Dawn: as in HOOhaw! hehehehe
AlyzaCCC: you may want to enlarge your font size, Greg, it helps in seeing the difference between the chet and hey
AlyzaCCC: lol, Dawn
* Greg3 is already at 16 point!
Dawn: bifocals?:)
AlyzaCCC: Vocabulary
AlyzaCCC: try 18 point :-)
nature-girl: :o)
AlyzaCCC: ..
AlyzaCCC: we already saw this
datafox: yes
Dawn: kne!
AlyzaCCC: Yes, it has a dagesh (dot) in the kahf and is voweled kahf-tsereh-nun sofit. ןכ
AlyzaCCC: It is pronounced ken.
Dawn: doh...ken
AlyzaCCC: nice correction, Dawn
AlyzaCCC: so, now we can say both no and yes :-)
AlyzaCCC: א.וה or אוה
AlyzaCCC: how would you say that?
datafox: hoo
datafox: him!
AlyzaCCC: hoo, yes
AlyzaCCC: He, it is voweled hey-shuruk-aleph and is pronounced hoo אוה
AlyzaCCC: but it means he, not him :-)
datafox: oh... need another english lesson too :)
AlyzaCCC: ונחנא
AlyzaCCC: * *: [note: the *'s are only place holders, so that things line up right on the web page]
AlyzaCCC: I will get this yet
Greg3: Ahnkenu??
AlyzaCCC: * :__ [note: the *'s are only place holders, so that things line up right on the web page]
AlyzaCCC: right, Greg, anachnu
datafox: anachnoo
AlyzaCCC: We, it is voweled ונחנא
AlyzaCCC: aleph-hataph-patach-nun-patach-chet-sheva-nun-shuruk
AlyzaCCC: and is pronounced anachnu
AlyzaCCC: this is our first plural word
AlyzaCCC: now we can talk about we as well as I, he, she, and you :-)
Greg3: Which was She?
AlyzaCCC: איה
AlyzaCCC: it is in your word list
AlyzaCCC: :)
Greg3: how is it pronounced, pleae?
Dawn: hee
datafox: hee?
AlyzaCCC: hee
AlyzaCCC: that is correct
Greg3: thanks
AlyzaCCC:* . [note: the *'s are only place holders, so that things line up right on the web page]
Greg3: Hee is she, and hoo is he hehehe
Dawn: ROFL
AlyzaCCC: okay, let's practice some sentance with he, she, you, you, and yes or no in them
AlyzaCCC: ?הדימלת Ruth
AlyzaCCC: Translate please
Greg3: Ruth is a student (f)
datafox: is ruth a student?
AlyzaCCC: good, it is a question
Greg3: oh, right IS ruth a student (F)
AlyzaCCC: now, please answer, She is a student
Greg3: Question- hopw does one tell from the sentence whether it is a question or a statmenet?
datafox: הדימלת איה
AlyzaCCC: the question mark at the end helps :-)
Dawn: ?
AlyzaCCC: tov maod, data
AlyzaCCC: yes Dawn?
Dawn: Does Hebrew use same punctuation as English?
AlyzaCCC: basically
Greg3: Biblical Hebrew doesn't though
Greg3: so, how does one tell?
AlyzaCCC: there are ? ! and periods, but the periods are diamond shaped usually
AlyzaCCC: There are also question words, which we will learn later, in addition to ma and me that we have already learned
Dawn: She is a student.
AlyzaCCC: since we do not have all of them, sometimes I must make a question without one
AlyzaCCC: right, Dawn
AlyzaCCC: okay, let's do another
AlyzaCCC: ? דימלת Greg
Dawn: Is Greg a student?
AlyzaCCC: please answer YES, he is a student
Greg3: Is Greg a Student? (M)
AlyzaCCC: correct, Greg :-)
Dawn: .דימלת אוה ,ןכ
AlyzaCCC: tov maod Dawn!
datafox: דימלת אוה ןכ
AlyzaCCC: very good
Greg3: דימלת Greg ,ןכ
AlyzaCCC: okay, let's get 2 more words
AlyzaCCC: םידימלת
Greg3: Talmidim - plural for students (M)
AlyzaCCC: . .: _
AlyzaCCC:* . .:_ [Note: the * is not a vowel, but a place holder so the vowels line up right]
AlyzaCCC: there, now the vowels are right
AlyzaCCC: can you all see how it is pronounced, as Greg said?
Dawn: Yes:)
datafox: yes
AlyzaCCC: okay, I always like to put the new words up with their vowels
AlyzaCCC: but it takes a while for me to get them right
AlyzaCCC: so please do not reply to a new word until I get the vowels up, okay?
Greg3: ok
AlyzaCCC: I can, sue
Dawn: ןכ (smart alec me)
AlyzaCCC: so, I basically had it right the first time, in curier AlyzaCCC: are you all using monospace fonts?
AlyzaCCC: Students (m.), it is the plural of the word (דימלת) םידימלת
AlyzaCCC: in parenthesis. It has a dagesh in the tav and
AlyzaCCC: is voweled tav-patach-kamed-sheva-meme-hiriq-yu d-dalet-hiriq-yud-mem sofit
AlyzaCCC: and is pronounced talmidim
AlyzaCCC: what I mean is, mono or proportional font version
AlyzaCCC: last word for today
datafox: mono is better for the vowels i suppose
AlyzaCCC: right, Susan
AlyzaCCC: good point
AlyzaCCC: תודימלת
AlyzaCCC: * *.:_ [npte:the *'s are placeholders only]
Greg3: talmidoat - plural for students (F)
AlyzaCCC: right, good Greg, you have been studying the vocab page
AlyzaCCC: I think
AlyzaCCC: now that we have we, and students, we can do more sentances
AlyzaCCC: let me past the vocab to all of you
AlyzaCCC: okay, we all have all of the word so far
Greg3: yes
AlyzaCCC: ? תודימלת ימ (relative to the room today)
AlyzaCCC: what does that mean?
datafox: who are the students?
AlyzaCCC: masc or fem?
datafox: (the f ones)
AlyzaCCC: right
AlyzaCCC: now, how is it pronounced?
Greg3: Susan and Dawn ;-)
Greg3: Mee Talmidoat
datafox: mee talmidot
Dawn: hehehe
AlyzaCCC: right
AlyzaCCC: now answer
AlyzaCCC: Susan and Dawn are students
AlyzaCCC: the first part should be English, as we have not yet learned how to say and in Hebrew :-)
Dawn: .תודימלת Dawn and Susan
AlyzaCCC: tov maod, Dawn!
datafox: but the "and"?
Greg3: .תודימלת Dawn and Susan
Greg3: vey, right?
AlyzaCCC: right
AlyzaCCC: we just do not have the Hebrew and yet, though it is in this lesson
Greg3: .תודימלת Susan'V Dawn
Dawn: oh...
Dawn: lemme try!
Greg3: Hard to do that in mixed mode
AlyzaCCC: I know, we will eventually use Hebrew names for all the students :-)
AlyzaCCC: okay?
Greg3: OK
datafox: ןזוס
AlyzaCCC: that your name, Susan?
datafox: was a try :)
Dawn: oh...don't think it will work
datafox: call me shoshanah :)
AlyzaCCC: okay, you are Shoshana, yes?
Greg3: Susan, how are you typing the letters?
AlyzaCCC: okay, I will look up the spelling
datafox: greg with an alias stuff
AlyzaCCC: Dawn, remind me, what name did we pick for you?
Greg3: Can you send it to me, please?
datafox: sure greg
Greg3: thaks!
Greg3: or thanks
AlyzaCCC: it does not type Israeli style, with Israeli keyboard layout
datafox: My name is הנשוש
Dawn: um...forgot Alyza:(
datafox: was that right?
AlyzaCCC: I highly recommend getting Accent express
AlyzaCCC: okay, Dawn, I will try to find it again
AlyzaCCC: yes, good, Susan
Greg3: Alyza - is that the one you sent us before? I think I have that, but don't know how to use it here
datafox: what is accent express?
AlyzaCCC: it is a word processor, they have a demo version available, that you can use to copy from
AlyzaCCC: and paste to here
AlyzaCCC: if you like it, and want to continue on in Hebrew, I highly recommend purchasing it
AlyzaCCC: okay, before we run out of time
datafox: have you heard of qtext?
AlyzaCCC: use each of the new words we learned in a sentance for next time. You may used more than 1 word (for example, you may use yes and students in the same sentance)
AlyzaCCC: yes, Susan, but it is very expensive, and I already have Dagesh2
AlyzaCCC: any questions?
AlyzaCCC: you want me to past the vocab to the main screen?
Dawn: That's the homework, right?
AlyzaCCC: right
Greg3: ok
AlyzaCCC: ימ
AlyzaCCC: ינא
AlyzaCCC: התא
AlyzaCCC: תא
AlyzaCCC: אמא
AlyzaCCC: המ
AlyzaCCC: םולש
AlyzaCCC: דימלת
AlyzaCCC: הדימלת
AlyzaCCC: שיא
AlyzaCCC: השא
AlyzaCCC: הרומ
AlyzaCCC: אל
AlyzaCCC: לש
AlyzaCCC: איה
AlyzaCCC: ילש
AlyzaCCC: ןכ
AlyzaCCC: אוה
AlyzaCCC: ונחנא
AlyzaCCC: םידימלת
AlyzaCCC: תודימלת
Dawn: Um...can someone do the math for many total sentences for homework?
AlyzaCCC: maximum 6 sentances
Dawn: k...thanks!
datafox: okay
AlyzaCCC: minimum depends on how creative you are :-)
AlyzaCCC: you can do it with 4, or even less
Dawn: todah!:)
datafox: the next session is on tuesday, right?
AlyzaCCC: correct, Susan
AlyzaCCC: well folks, that's it for tonight
AlyzaCCC: shalom!
AlyzaCCC: םולש
datafox: shalom
Dawn: Todah, Morah!
Dawn: Shalom Susan and Greg!
AlyzaCCC: bevakasha, Dawn!
Greg3: םולש
Session Close: Sun Jul 06 21:47:44 1997

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